Report 1696
Report #1696 Skillset: Skill: Rooting Org: Hallifax Status: Completed Aug 2017 Furies' Decision: Tentative approval with Ciaran and Tarken's changes. Problem: Forced movement abilities are needed to counter things such as Bards, Barrier, GPent, and for saving allies and splitting groups. Summon resist (aka rooting) provides a way to counter this counter, however the random nature of this and the sometimes very high amount of rooting able to be acquired with various skills and artifacts can make this a very dubious proposition. 3 R: 8 Solution #1: Each failed force movement attempt will lower the target's rooting by 25% or where x = 20% of cement socks rooting amount. After being successfully moved, or after 15s from the last attempt, reset to their normal max. Player Comments: ---on 8/12 @ 16:57 writes: Depending what happens with Bards this may not be as necessary to counter them, but it's still a factor in other cases. Due to the vagueness of specific summoning resist values, Solution 1 itself is a little vague. I trust the admins will come up with a good number should the report be approved. ---on 8/12 @ 16:57 sets as pending ---on 8/13 @ 12:25 writes: 15 seconds is too long for some effects. Passive movement shifts on demense ticks would mean you'd eventually be moved 100% of the time by them even with nothing else attempting to move you. ---on 8/13 @ 12:28 writes: There are non-forced movement based things to counter most of the things you've listed as well. I'm not a fan of the pure randomness of certain skill set ups but that'd probally be better resolved by a report on these skills themself. I'm very undecided about this report and the need for it as proposed and with the current solution. Movement is a very very strong effect in group combat now and this would be a very strong buff to it. I think I prefered the idea you spoke about about a channeled power costing gust. This just doesnt feel right, maybe with more tweaks but I'm not fully on board with this report right now. ---on 8/18 @ 00:38 writes: Being able to eventually guarantee a move is the point, yes. I don't consider this would overly add to the Aquamesne burden compared to what it already does, though I did support the previous report. That may be moot depending on what happens with Mages, though. Agree that we should at individual cases and adjust where necessary, though I think forced movement is an option which currently is too inconsistent. ---on 8/21 @ 21:56 writes: What if the diminished rooting only applied to active movement effects, not passive ones? So apply it to gusts, kicks, tackles, etc. but Aquamancer passive movement would not degrade it. ---on 8/27 @ 23:15 writes: Only active effects would fix that issue slightly I guess but I still think 15 seconds is way too long. I mean even with just using my beast balance to gust a target and attacking normally I'm eventually going to get to the point solo where I can 100% gust someone anytime I want. Drop the time down to a rolling 5 seconds. You keep gusting someone and eventually you'll get them moving but if you stop and attack for a bit they'll get their resistance back. ---on 8/27 @ 23:17 writes: Also 25% would be a bit too much as well. Your pretty much saying two people gusting at once with their beasts is a 100% chance to gust. Gust allies and enemies is a pretty strong and useful thing to do right now I don't think it should be made too much easier. Dropping overall resistance by 10% would maybe be ok. ---on 8/28 @ 01:20 writes: I agree that rooting is a problem, but I'm not really sure I like the solution as it only attempts to fix the RNG nature of rooting. I think the other two problems with rooting is that it seems to have no diminishing returns, or at least you can get to really, really high levels where you are very unlikely to be moved, and that the only real counter to some skills is gust/forced movement. I'd like to see rooting at the highest levels be decreased, and perhaps slightly increased at the lowest levels, as well as the use of some skills like barrier and dsong/perfectfifth to also lower rooting significantly. ---on 8/28 @ 14:32 writes: To be honest, I am 100% against this solution and it's partially because I think it would make bruising based monks (currently tahtetso and partially ninja) a bit too strong. A lot of enemies (not including top tier fighters) can succumb to heavy bruising if I lock them down. Bruising currently has a tic CD on everything except movement, including forced movement. This will essentially allow me to stack up bruising, and then gust spam someone for a lot of damage. What stops this now is the mechanics of rooting and the likelihood that the enemy will resist the move attempt, it is likely more advantageous for me to continue my assault and get the enemy to run on his own. With that high timer (15s from the last gust attempt) and my shortish balances, I'd eventually be able to force 100% gust procs, at which point, with the enemy sufficiently bruised, they won't be able to run because of bruising, and I can just continue gusting them around the area for much more damage then I would be able to do with my forms. At the very least, this will open up attempts for health/mana pressure to make DeathTouch's more viable for bruising (which I'm not necessarily against, but this isn't how I want to achieve it.) tldr, turtling is one of the few ways to negate a bruising offense, and allowing me to negate someones rooting entirely by spamming gust after every 3rd form is too much a buff IMO. ---on 8/28 @ 14:34 writes: I also don't like that this will allow tarot users to eventually guarantee an empress on an enemy or an ally, regardless of the rooting artifact. I don't feel that empress really needs a buff like that this way. (I did have an idea for empress to negate some rooting, but I think it being linked to all forms of forced movement is a bit too easy). ---on 8/29 @ 11:38 writes: Based on Ciaran's comments and because he's too lazy to comment himself "I think if you take passive effects out of it, reset on forced movement. 5 seconds and reduce the effectiveness to 15%" It'd be alright from there ---on 8/29 @ 11:39 writes: After discussion with Veyils, I like the mechanic, but with adjusted numbers, and a few additional details: 5 seconds rolling timer, 15% rooting redux per resisted movement, and the rooting reduction is reset on movement. ---on 8/29 @ 11:45 writes: I'm honestly wary about this. This works out as a buff to basically all movement abilities which well I don't really think things like Scissorkick/currents/etc need a buff. I'd much prefer an alternative solution to high movement resistance than a flat blanket buff to all movement effects. ---on 8/30 @ 02:14 writes: I can get on board with this with Ciaran's proposed numbers, but do agree with Veyils that I'd prefer something that targeted high rooting people specifically rather than just buffing movement skills. What if this rooting debuff had a lower bound. So for instance, let's say 40%. Anyone with 40% or lower rooting would be unaffected by this debuff. Say I have 55% rooting and Shedrin gusts me and the gust fails. My rooting would then drop to 40%, but if he then gusted me again (and failed again) I would not then drop lower, because my rooting is already at the lower bound. 40 is a illustrative value, I have not thought out that specific number at all.